20

Turbo Tech: Size Matters!

by Khiem Dinh

Khiem Dinh is an engineer for Honeywell Turbo Technologies at the time of this writing.  All statements and opinions expressed by Khiem Dinh are solely those of Khiem Dinh and not reflective of Honeywell Turbo Technologies.

This quick guide to selecting a turbo size is only intended for spark ignition engines as diesel engines are a completely different ball game with compound turbos and all. The very first thing you need to ask yourself is what the heck you intend to use the car for as that will determine the type of powerband that best suit your needs. I’ll categorize cars into three main usage groups: Street, Road Course, and Drag.

 

MotoIQ Project STiProject STI is the street turbo car in the MotoIQ fleet.

‘Street’ is a car intended for daily driving duties. The torque curve peaks quickly at low engine speeds as much of your time in street driving involves accelerating from a stop. Therefore, having ample torque at low engine speeds is desirable for driving in traffic. To get that low-end torque, the engine requires a relatively small turbo. This is how nearly every turbo car is sized from the automotive manufacturer. The engines typically produce 100-150hp/liter on pump gas.

 

Project Evo X GSR is the turbo road course car in the MotoIQ fleet with a GTX3071R turbo upgrade.

‘Road Course’ defines a car that spends most of its time in the upper half of the rev range. A road course car still needs adequate mid-range to pull out of lower speed corners, but it can sacrifice the low-end torque to gain top-end power. Many gearheads like us will go this route for a fast street car as we are willing to give up torque in the bottom third of the engine rpm range to gain a good chunk of horsepower up top. Turbos sized for an application like this will typically put engines in the 200-250hp/liter range on pump gas.

 

The Sportscar Motion drag Civic has a massive GTX4294R.

‘Drag’ is a car that spends all of its time in the upper rpm range. When you’re drag racing, all you need is top-end, so you sacrifice both low-end and mid-range to get maximum top-end power. The sky is the limit here and this is strictly race gas territory. 500hp/liter is not unreasonable though you’ll need a built engine for sure! I’m not too sure how long the engine will hold up either at this point. A LOT of guys THINK they want a monster power car for the street. So they build these 800whp Evos with tons of lag that also require a high torque capacity clutch with all the modulation ability of an on/off light switch. I have seen the same story over and over; a super high horsepower car gets built as a daily driver and the lag and lack of clutch modulation make it horrible to drive on the street. Then the car gets promptly sold. Don’t be that guy, make sure you know exactly what you REALLY want out of your car.

 

With turbos, bigger is laggier. It’s as simple as that. For a street car, you want a small turbo. Road course cars will opt for a medium size. Drag cars will go as big as they can fit and the engine can handle. To illustrate I plotted out the rough shapes of the torque curves for Street, Road Course, and Drag turbo sizing.
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Comments
RRocket
RRocketlink
Monday, January 20, 2014 10:43 PM
Any article on how to size a turbo correctly without a thorough explanation on how to read a turbo compressor map properly can't be taken seriously IMO.
Dan DeRosia
Dan DeRosialink
Tuesday, January 21, 2014 4:29 AM
There's the part about "quick and dirty" right there on the front page. You don't need to start off with compressor maps to narrow down your choices, and god knows a lot of people mis-size turbos for their uses.
Fly'n_Z
Fly'n_Zlink
Tuesday, January 21, 2014 7:09 AM
@ RRocket: If you can make it to page 3 you'll find a link there to a couple of different articles discussing compressor and turbine maps.
spdracerut
spdracerutlink
Tuesday, January 21, 2014 7:12 AM
@RRocket, click on the handily provided link "TurbobyGarrett Turbo Tech 103 (Expert)". It's a nice and thorough 11-page PDF on how to read a compressor map and plot operating points on it. I.E, it would have been a waste of my time to regurgitate information easily found and well documented.
Mike Kojima
Mike Kojimalink
Tuesday, January 21, 2014 7:29 AM
Check the links in the article for what you need!
SWR
SWRlink
Tuesday, January 21, 2014 9:09 AM
Most of the time we find that the stock Garretts are mismatched.. the '3576 is one of the better ones, having a large(r) turbine diameter hooked to a 3076R compressor and a small-ish turbine housing option. Most often we get really good spool buying a "too darn large turbine" and mating it to a very small housing A/R for that turbine and add a properly sized compressor, usually from another smaller range. Very custom, but you get an unbeatable range.. Fredric Aasbø's GT86X 2JZ for instance.. it produces near 400ft/lbs at 2700 rpm, peaks the TQ at 671ft/lbs at 4700 and makes 743 whp at 7000. Beat that range without antilag or Nitrous injection.. not likely. Just wish they would produce a GT2863 with a GT30 turbine and a .63 to .70 A/R GT28 housing..
ED9man
ED9manlink
Tuesday, January 21, 2014 9:38 AM
When you talk about lag do you mean boost threshold? A very large turbo doesn't necessarily have a lot of lag but it will have boost threshold at a high rpm. I've seen cars with very large turbos on small 4 cylinder engines that seem to spool very fast assuming when you put your foot down the engine is already at a high enough rpm. I've also driven small turbo stock cars that didn't spool very fast even above boost threshold which would be lag in the technical sense.
spdracerut
spdracerutlink
Tuesday, January 21, 2014 10:34 AM
@ED9man, I'm talking about boost threashold, so basically the torque curve. On/off throttle transient is another characteristic; variables that improve that are ball bearing, blade speed ratio, mass/inertia of the rotating group, single/twin-scrool where applicable, and probably a few other things I'm forgetting.

@SWR, the compressor to turbine wheel match is highly application dependent. Like for a 2.2L-3.5L engine, I'd recommend the GTX3576R all day long for a fun and responsive turbo in the 500whp-600whp range. But in shooting for that same power on a 1.6L.... I'd probably look into the GTX3076R first.

So there's a couple things to balance. Spool-up is basically how much power you can get out of the exhaust by way of the turbine and into the compressor. Turbine power is a function of mass flow, temperature, expansion ratio, and efficiency. If you've read the previous articles, you'll know a 'small' A/R turbine housing has lower turbine efficiency at lower turbine expansion ratios. Looking at the GTX3076 vs. GTX3576, the 3576 is a better blade speed ratio match which improves turbine efficiency (also mentioned in previous articles). If you put it in a small A/R turbine housing, you offset that a bit with the lower efficiency at the lower expansion ratios where spool-up occurs. Of course, the bigger GT35 turbine needs more mass flow for a given expansion ratio. On a small displacement engine, it can't generate that sufficient exhaust flow to get things spooled up at low engine speeds. So there's a point at which it's more beneficial to go to the smaller turbine wheel. Long story short, bigger/higher flowing engines can use bigger turbines and still have good spool-up whereas a smaller engine may need the smaller turbine on the same size compressor wheel.

FYI, there is the GTX3067R. I think pairing the 63mm compresso with the GT30 60mm turbine would be for a pretty unique application. Maybe a big displacement, low boost setup. Or a smaller engine looking for maximium volumetric efficiency at rated power with the sacrific being spool-up. That wheel matching is really getting into some grey area between the GT28 and GT30 sizing.
SWR
SWRlink
Tuesday, January 21, 2014 4:00 PM
@spdracerut: I've read it all, yes, and I am not saying you can throw a GTX3576R on a 1.4-liter 57 hp Fiat and just with a small housing expect killer power and range. What I am saying it that from my experience, the norm - atleast around here in Norway - has been to up the diameter of the turbine and drop the A/R to match the engine size and it spools faster/harder than the "one size smaller" wheel on a "one size bigger" housing for the same engine. I am sure there's a limit to it of course.

I am aware of the GTX3067R, and it might be the next thing we'll test on this thing. The combo above would be for a 1.6-liter engine that as of now run a "full" GT3076R at just over 380whp, positive boost from 1900rpm with a 0.82A/R housing but not "useful" boost before we're closer to 5000 rpm.. We'd like to have it come in smoothly (hence large wheel) to preserve the 'box, just a bit earlier without surging to death.. and we'd like to keep the backpressure ratio positive instead of the "normal" higher backpressure than boost as the engine is far more snappy as it is camwise.. hence, the idea was the same turbine, smaller housing (.63) and a compressor better matched to the needed airflow.. the 76 we have seen 550 whp on, too big for this one. :)
spdracerut
spdracerutlink
Tuesday, January 21, 2014 10:08 PM
@SWR, yes, limits to everything :)

Looking at the turbine flow maps on the turbobygarrett site, the GT35 turbine in the T3 flanged 0.63 A/R housing flows about 17.5 lbs/min corrected flow at a pressure ratio of 1.5. The GT30 in the 0.82 A/R flows about 20 lbs/min at the same 1.5 PR. The missing information is the turbine efficiency and shaft speed, but if one assumes equal efficiency, then yes the GT35 will probably spool sooner.

I think you'll really like the GTX3067R. It will spool significantly faster than the GT3076R, but I think the back pressure will go up some. Well worth the trade-off for the quicker spool.

Nikko
Nikkolink
Wednesday, January 29, 2014 12:52 PM
Does anyone know if Garrett will be doing the twin scroll V-band housing's for the GT28/GTX28?
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